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* coolcoder613
wishes he had someone to pair program with
<zdykstra>
I can get you a mirror and a palindrome in c++
<coolcoder613>
The problem is, mirrors tend to always agree with you ;
<bjorkint0sh>
coolcoder613 I haven't used it, but people have spoken of copilot as an equivalent.
<bjorkint0sh>
have you tried it?
<coolcoder613>
I think I tried it once
<coolcoder613>
Might have been something else
<coolcoder613>
It basically autocompleted whole functions for you
<bjorkint0sh>
yeah.
<bjorkint0sh>
isn't that what you want?
* coolcoder613
thinks that was actually tabnine
* coolcoder613
finds it easier to focus on doing something when there is someone else doing it with him
<coolcoder613>
Otherwise, I tend to get distracted and do things like talk on IRC ;)
* coolcoder613
is also eager to try out the collab features of his new favorite editor: Zed
<coolcoder613>
ChatGPT said this about my code:
<coolcoder613>
Function Naming:
<coolcoder613>
Rust conventions usually prefer snake_case for function and variable names. In your case, _svm_free, _svm_new, and _svm_run are in snake_case, but svm_free, svm_new, and svm_run are in camelCase. It's generally more idiomatic to use snake_case for consistency.
<coolcoder613>
lol
<bjorkint0sh>
coolcoder613, have you tried the alternative?
<bjorkint0sh>
talking to yourself?
<bjorkint0sh>
or to a rubber duck, or even better, peeps?
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<Begasus>
g'morning peeps
<Begasus>
coolcoder613, those peeps looked yummi :P
<augiedoggie>
peeps are disgusting
<augiedoggie>
my mother likes them :/
<Begasus>
lol
<Begasus>
never new it was a real thing :)
<Begasus>
LinkedIn seems to be running better in Falkon now
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<nephele>
are there any functions related to vector manipulation, as in matrix multiplication, quaternions etc. In Haikus kits? and if not does anyone know of compatibly licensed c++ libraries for that?
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<x512[m]>
nephele: GLM?
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<nephele>
"By making use of the software for military purposes, you choose to make a Bunny unhappy."
<nephele>
Lol, what kind of license is that. but also normal MIT dual license
<nephele>
Seems to be what i need, thanks x512
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<BrunoSpr>
good morning
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<nephele>
hi
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<Begasus>
low
<nephele>
I don't like that humor one BIT
<Begasus>
:)
<nephele>
Begasus: do you know if haiku has any spinbuttons?
<nephele>
those textboxes that have a Up and Down button next to them for value increments
<Begasus>
not that I know of
<nephele>
Hmm. Webkit wants an implementation of them
<Begasus>
coffee refill ..
<Begasus>
there ... good for half an hour :)
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<BrunoSpr>
Is'nt the spin button kind of up and down arrow?
<BrunoSpr>
Just guessing!
<BrunoSpr>
I think there is not such a button for Haiku ready
<BrunoSpr>
PulkoMandy should know
<nephele>
yes
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<nephele>
I'll just implement one myself in webkit i suppose
<BrunoSpr>
If you can do that wonderfull!
<andreasdr[m]>
Hi there.
<andreasdr[m]>
I also plan to exclude military usage out of our products. Inspired by GLM.
<nephele>
(that's a non-free license FYI)
<andreasdr[m]>
Oh. I see. Did not think about that yet.
<Begasus>
afk
<nephele>
the problem is a bit, how would you even define something as military usage?
<nephele>
say, would it be okay that someone who is in the military (or say who is even just a "angestellter" of the bundeswehr) used this on their personal computer?
<andreasdr[m]>
Just discourage the usage of MiniScript, TDME2, ... in military products.
<andreasdr[m]>
No.
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<andreasdr[m]>
Of course can a soldier try our stuff for personal usage.
<nephele>
that's not really defined if you add such an exception in the license
<nephele>
and it infringes on the basic freedom to use and study the software ;)
<nephele>
atleast how the fsf would define it
<andreasdr[m]>
Lets say military want to use MiniScript to compute stuff or use it in a weapon system. I dont want that. Thats all. I dont want to support that.
<nephele>
you are free to use such a license of course, but it wouldn't be "free" in that sense, and for example would make sure haiku would never distribute it on release images and such
<andreasdr[m]>
"for example would make sure haiku would never distribute it on release images and such" I dont understand that 100%
<nephele>
We only want to distribute opensource/free software on our release images :)
<x512[m]>
GLM seems useful for military drones.
<andreasdr[m]>
I see.
<nephele>
GLM is also dual licensed with the normal MIT
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. Of course GLM is useful for miliatary reason.
<andreasdr[m]>
But the author does not want to support that. And I agree.
<nephele>
and the "you make a bunny unhappy" part is not really serious
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. Maybe its only a hint.
<nephele>
What about missile defense systems? same terms, but still not allowed (even in purely defensive military installations)
<andreasdr[m]>
So its not a legal expression to disallow usage.
<erysdren>
i definitely lean towards having a no-military no-federal usage in my licenses...
<andreasdr[m]>
Its just a hint
<nephele>
no-federal...?
<erysdren>
no government
<nephele>
Why?
<erysdren>
because i don't care for them using my code under any circumstances, should it be useful to them
<erysdren>
any government
<nephele>
the goverment already makes shitty enough software without barring them from open source software
<erysdren>
they can keep doing that and leave me alone
<x512[m]>
I don't agree. Military use in not always evil. For example Ukrainian army fight for their freedom.
<nephele>
(except the german covid app, which is a miracle of biblical proportions, and i can't believe it was made by the german state)
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. The world is complicated as fuck. Due to the fact that I cant know about every melting pot on earth I just want to exclude military usage for now.
<erysdren>
even if my license text wouldn't stand up in court, it's enough of a signifier that any government programmer would probably just avoid using it
<andreasdr[m]>
So you think this GLM idea is non sense? Its a personal preferrement of the author. Why not respect it.
<nephele>
erysdren: I don't understand that at all. you are just creating propritary software. If you want to do that, sure? but it certainly isn't open source
<erysdren>
then it is propietary software
<nephele>
andreasdr[m]: They deliberately did not make this a legal liability, because it is dual licensed with the normal MIT license
<erysdren>
i don't particularly care what the FSF defines open-source as
<nephele>
you can do that too if you want
<nephele>
the FSF does not care about open source, only what they call "free software"
<erysdren>
the only reason i post the source code of anything is with the hope that someone like-minded will find useful, tbh
<erysdren>
i took down a bunch of my projects a while back because i was retreating into a digital hermit shell for a bit. most of those haven't gone back up and never will
<andreasdr[m]>
nephele: Yes. Sort of that would work for me. Not sure 100%. There are so many ways to see conflicts on earth. I just dont get it how people can still kill themselves with bullets and stuff. Its non sense.
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<nephele>
andreasdr[m]: i do agree. but a license for software is more a practical thing because of the current shitty copyright laws. It's not really usefull as a political tool
<erysdren>
to clarify, that's just my stance on it for my code. i don't mean to impose this on anyone else's code.
<andreasdr[m]>
nephele: I see. But I like to make a very small statement about this unhumanism.
<nephele>
take for example the most restrictive licenses like gpl3 with no exceptions, if you use this for a library that has alternatives you basically ensure nobody will use it
<x512[m]>
It is too cruel to prohibit people to have an army and be massacred by an aggressor who have army. Bad guys don't need permissions or obeying license terms.
<nephele>
andreasdr[m]: sure, do so. If you want you can do the dual license thing too (that ensures people for whom this is relevant can simply say "I choose you, Mit!")
<andreasdr[m]>
But its a official statement against unhumanism.
<andreasdr[m]>
Even if no one cares :)
<nephele>
x512[m]: indeed, same with banning encryption, you can't ban encryption for criminals. they will just use it regardless and still be criminal *shrug*
<andreasdr[m]>
I let that idea still sink. Thank you. Interesting talk.
<jezek2>
andreasdr[m]: the problem with such restrictions is that (in case of libraries) it prohibits usage in other opensource software
<andreasdr[m]>
Oh I see.
<andreasdr[m]>
So i should make more of a statement in a place that is not software license related. I am pretty sure everyone who would uses GLM would just use it, even for military reason.
<andreasdr[m]>
GLM has this statement and I think that is kind of bold, even if no one cares.
<nephele>
it's similar, i think, to the bsd-no-nuclear license
<andreasdr[m]>
Oh let me check.
<nephele>
which i personally think is ridicilous... we need more nuclear power not less. Just maybe not that one technique the US thought was best for making bombs, but instead safe nuclear power... like molten salt reactors :D
<andreasdr[m]>
So back to GLM? Can I add this one sentense to my MIT license easily "You acknowledge that this software is not designed, licensed or intended for use in the design, construction, operation or maintenance of any nuclear facility." (Replace nuclear facility with some military facility)
<andreasdr[m]>
Not sure :DDD
<andreasdr[m]>
Lets see later.
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<nephele>
Well, as jezek2 said. this will make it non-free
<nephele>
unless you dual license this with the MIT
<andreasdr[m]>
Ok. Thank you!!!
<BrunoSpr>
x512[m] I agree, yes, yes and yes
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<andreasdr[m]>
So I cancel that for now.
<andreasdr[m]>
I can add such a sentence in the README.md without adjusting license.
<nephele>
yes :)
<andreasdr[m]>
Cool.
* phschafft
takes a big mental note on x512[m]'s statement on military and then leaves again.
<andreasdr[m]>
?
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<andreasdr[m]>
Any haiku news? My last big 100 points were the TCP network stack improvements. :)))
<andreasdr[m]>
x512: Is there news with NVIDIA, just asking kindly, no need to answer.
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* nephele
links the linus torvalds "fuck you nvidia" video
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<nephele>
welp, newest anyboot doesn't boot on my dev machine either :(
<andreasdr[m]>
Haha. I think NVIDIA did a interestnig move. Supporting alternative OSes seems possible with a much lower work load and even lesser required skill set. Not sure 100%. But I like it.
<andreasdr[m]>
It takes complexity out of a OS kernel and moves it into firmware of the graphics cards. It allows to coexist open source and closed source, while exposing what graphic cards are useful for. GAMING!!!!
<nephele>
trying to enter the efi bootloader menu also crashed the computer
<nephele>
huh, now that loaded .-.
<andreasdr[m]>
:x
<nephele>
older state doesn't work either
<nephele>
The only thing i changed was the gpu for one that should be supported
<nephele>
but it's the bootloader handoff that doesn't seem to work .-.
<andreasdr[m]>
I even think AMD could follow with that model. :DDD
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<andreasdr[m]>
No idea, not all knowledge together here.
<nephele>
maybe. Nvidia just moved their driver to the gpu pretty much
<nephele>
sadly this requires a fairly recent nvidia card
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. True. But If we never change this or adapt we will be tied to the old unfair situation. Small OSes just dont have 3d hw accel.
<nephele>
their driver is not yet "optimized" for desktop use
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<nephele>
probably mainly intended for AI and such
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<nephele>
i think nouveau levels of gpu support would be perfectly adequate for haiku :P
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. But DRM kernel drivers are monsters.
<x512[m]>
No. Nouveau is trash.
<nephele>
nouveau is perfectly fine. It provides modesetting and a bit of 3d acceleration
<x512[m]>
I tested in on Linux and it terribly glitched.
<nephele>
it really depends on the card though
<nephele>
some macbooks have nvidia cards, i want to support atleast those
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. I also tested NOUVEAU several times. I just think all those DRM kernel driver monsters are just not adaquate to be build by small OS developers.
<nephele>
I want haiku to be able to replace macos once apple drops support for intel macs
<andreasdr[m]>
Or ported. ....
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. NOUVEAU also does not timing setups, so earch newer card with NOUVEAU will run in slow (boot timings) modes.
<andreasdr[m]>
That was the case 2 years ago or so.
<x512[m]>
For me Nouveau cause screen to flicker and update wrong parts of screen. Totally unusable.
<andreasdr[m]>
I see. :(
<nephele>
that's unfortunate
<nephele>
I've had laptops where it worked fine
<x512[m]>
Nvidia native driver is fine.
<nephele>
(though the sort of "if you enable gpu acceleration everything becomes slow")
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. Those NVIDIA drivers have quality.
<nephele>
for some 2d gui stuff it's probably faster to draw on the cpu and hand it off to the gpu
<andreasdr[m]>
I used them 2017...2022 on FreeBSD. Rock and roll!!!
<andreasdr[m]>
Also FreeBSD doesnt manage to keep the DRM drivers current.
<nephele>
the FreeBSD version works fine actually. Just not the DRM ports of linux to FreeBSD of amd and such .-.
<x512[m]>
I am currently fixing USB audio.
<andreasdr[m]>
I tried FreeBSD 14 and it failed to use my AMD 6600
<nephele>
that gave me constantly kernel panitcs
<nephele>
x512[m]: neat
<andreasdr[m]>
x512: +1
<x512[m]>
I seems found what is wrong.
<andreasdr[m]>
We are curious. What was it?
<nephele>
I am not curious :D
<andreasdr[m]>
(Linux does work very well with the 6600)
<andreasdr[m]>
nephele: :DDD
<nephele>
(I only review code, if i have something to say about it)
<x512[m]>
Wrong isochronous TRB frame ID units and TRB should be not chained.
<andreasdr[m]>
Hm. Would need to read about TRB. So now I dont understand.
<andreasdr[m]>
Cool. Can it be fixed?
<nephele>
no :(
<nephele>
it will stay broken forever
<andreasdr[m]>
Ohhhh noooooooo :(((
<x512[m]>
TRB (Transfer Request Block)
<andreasdr[m]>
I have a small USB 2 channel record device (1 channel for voice input, 1 channel for guitar). I kike to test that with Haiku one day.
<andreasdr[m]>
I plan to record some songs again.
<x512[m]>
TRB is a data structure that encode commands and events for XHCI.
<nephele>
x512[m]: do you know what frequency haiku polls at for usb devices? can we enable lower polling rates for some input devcies maybe? :D
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. For singer songwriter purpose (you play guitar and sing, and get both recorded within a recording app to mix both channels individually)
<nephele>
(for lower latency)
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<BrunoSpr>
anyway I have no glue but great to have working usb-audio one time
<andreasdr[m]>
Sometimes I do compose songs and interpret them.
<BrunoSpr>
ah yes it was isochronous... you type faster than I can read,
<andreasdr[m]>
Actually I have a cold or corona currently :(((
<BrunoSpr>
USB cameras, oh yes how beautiful would that be!
<nephele>
covid-23
<andreasdr[m]>
So cant work really, its sad.
<andreasdr[m]>
Want to release our MiniScript but have some points left to be done.
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<nephele>
I want to make an open-source appstore for iOS
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<PetePete>
I LOVE covid!
<andreasdr[m]>
nephele: What about homebrew and such?
<andreasdr[m]>
or pkgsrc
<andreasdr[m]>
Which are port systems on Mac.
<andreasdr[m]>
I hate COVID. It just makes me unproductive.
<PetePete>
There was no traffic, no thugs at the park, we got the ice cream stores to ourselves, and people washed their filthy hands! It was a pretty good time for us
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes.
<andreasdr[m]>
Thas true.
<andreasdr[m]>
But COVID also killed lots of people, lots of businesses, ....
<nephele>
andreasdr[m]: I dunno. I want to make one with apple now (forcibly) allowing third party application store
<PetePete>
Oh it was used for evil.
<nephele>
PetePete: i was an essential worker during covid, no stay at at home for me. But for those that did it was pretty bad emotionally
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. I suffered a lot. Got back panic attacks as fuck. Living alone and beeing such isolated means damage for your mental healtyness.
<andreasdr[m]>
Lots of people experienced this.
<PetePete>
nephele I tried to tell people not to be afraid and just leave the house whenever they wanted. Those of us who went out and acted normally lived a normal life through all that
<andreasdr[m]>
Also bars closed here down the road and such.
<PetePete>
That sucks, man...
<PetePete>
(the anxiety stuff)
<andreasdr[m]>
I am fine again :)
<bjorkint0sh>
that's awful andreasdr[m].
<andreasdr[m]>
Thank you!!!
<bjorkint0sh>
I on the other hand, looooooved it.
<PetePete>
We didn't change a thing
<bjorkint0sh>
no need to leave the house? ever? YES!!!
<nephele>
PetePete: yes, well it was allowed to elave the house for some stuff (including walks in the park). but many people did not take that oportunity
<andreasdr[m]>
Nerd :DDD :P
<bjorkint0sh>
and then they called me back to work.
<bjorkint0sh>
I love solitude so much.
<andreasdr[m]>
Damn.
<bjorkint0sh>
never talked to my neighbors, because I had no desire to. didn't have to talk to anyone. heaven.
<BrunoSpr>
Too much off topic for me now! Better to switch back to HAIKU! What do you think?
<bjorkint0sh>
I read a lot. watched a lot of shows.
<nephele>
BrunoSpr: off-topic is allowed here, it's not that tragic :)
<PetePete>
I bought a bunch of tools and began woodorking
<andreasdr[m]>
Ok. Open for a Haiku topic. Can also shut up.
<andreasdr[m]>
Nice PetePete.
<bjorkint0sh>
BrunoSpr, I agree with you.
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<bjorkint0sh>
Whispers of stillness,
<bjorkint0sh>
Solitude embraces me,
<bjorkint0sh>
Nature's silent song.
<PetePete>
Nice
<bjorkint0sh>
a haiku in #haiku
<PetePete>
nice nice nice nice nice
<PetePete>
nice nice nice nice nice nice nice
<bjorkint0sh>
oh it's all chatgpt.
<PetePete>
nice nice nice nice nice
<andreasdr[m]>
NICE!!!
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<PetePete>
you know what's interesting?
<PetePete>
I have always thought Japanese and English sound a LOT alike, especially to someone who speaks neither
<andreasdr[m]>
?
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<bjorkint0sh>
that's odd.
<PetePete>
Haiku is an art because 575 is not a natural rhythm (at least not in englsh), thus, I suspect it is not in Japanese either
<bjorkint0sh>
PetePete, what language do you think you're communicating in right now?
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<PetePete>
bjorkint0sh wait, what?
<bjorkint0sh>
you said you speak neither english nor japanese!
<andreasdr[m]>
Actually to attract people to adapt to Haiku Application API. Would it make sense to port it over to Linux?
<nephele>
Yeah, I guess I could only copy it :/
<nephele>
andreasdr[m]: why do you want to attract people to it?
<nephele>
there is already a project that runs haiku in linux userspace fyi
<nephele>
(and the app kit makes little sense in isolation)
<andreasdr[m]>
I think developers are scared to be tied 100% to Haiku as the market is soo small still.
<andreasdr[m]>
You guys are always talking about more native applications, that would be one way. Just a thought. Can be nonsense though.
<bjorkint0sh>
andreasdr[m], port it to linux? what would be the goal?
<nephele>
well, dunno. I don't care for native apps that don't use haikus features either :g
<andreasdr[m]>
"Just" the Haiku API for developing UI based apps. Just like QT is.
<bjorkint0sh>
oh I see.
<bjorkint0sh>
won't that be great!
<bjorkint0sh>
it's really beautiful.
* OscarL
goes to hunt for food. He waves at everyone before signing off.
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<zard>
o/
<PetePete>
I wonder what he hunts with
<nephele>
andreasdr[m]: that would give you something similar to qt just with worse integration for *everything* in linux
<PetePete>
I have a 6.5 Creedmoor
<nephele>
PetePete: his wallet?
<nephele>
hi zard
<PetePete>
nephele Oh... yeah
<andreasdr[m]>
Dudes. If you want apps you have to adapt to app developers.
<zard>
hello nephele :). Just waving OscarL off
<andreasdr[m]>
Just saying. :x
<nephele>
andreasdr[m]: yes, kinda. but what is the point to make more linux apps?
<PetePete>
crew linux
<PetePete>
screw*
<PetePete>
there is plenty of linux
<PetePete>
to much limus
<andreasdr[m]>
You can take those Linux Haiku GUI apps and compile them directly on Haiku and have a nearly 100% Haiku app.
<nephele>
PetePete: too late, you are not branded "crew linux", i will quote this out of context :D
<PetePete>
linux! (dang this keyboard)
<PetePete>
nephele DANGIT!!!!
<nephele>
andreasdr[m]: not really, there are way more things than just the appkit you need for an application
<andreasdr[m]>
And app developers are not only tied to Haiku.
PetePete is now known as NotPetePete
<nephele>
say, for example sound: on linux they would use sndio, pulseaudio or alsa
<NotPetePete>
"Screw linux"
<nephele>
now we can't run the app
NotPetePete is now known as PetePete
<andreasdr[m]>
Ill quiet down. Was just a thought. May also be technical difficult.
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<nephele>
again, there is already a port of haiku userland to linux
<nephele>
but off the entire userland, not the app kit
<nephele>
it doesn't make any native apps run integrated into linux at all though
<andreasdr[m]>
Do you have a link?
<PetePete>
Can I just take this opportunity to say that I for one, VERY much appreciate the developers and testers for all their hard work and grasp of the processes et al that it takes to make pixels do cool stuf on my scren?
<andreasdr[m]>
Sure. I also bow.
<PetePete>
I really do. I know it's a thankless job and those of us without the skills of knowledge are a bunch of ungrateful wretches.
<nephele>
PetePete: if it is a thankless job, then how dare you thank us? :D
<PetePete>
Well.. I...
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* nephele
afk to the food store
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. I followed the progress. Seems to be a (good) start.
<andreasdr[m]>
Or end :DDD
<bjorkint0sh>
nephele, it's a LOL!!! a labor of love!
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<PetePete>
So... I was thinking that I might be able to encrypt my drive on my own and then get haiku working wih something like PLOP. But is there any way to password protect your user acount? I don't see a way to log in or out
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<PetePete>
I scared the only girl away wih my nonsense
<nephele>
The only utility currently in haiku is a password in the screensaver app
<nephele>
but not sure how secure that is
<Begasus>
kdbusinterprocesslocktest ... seems to be working, the cpu's went num :D
<PetePete>
I would run Haiku in a VM for sure
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<PetePete>
mmmm breakfast enchilada casserole
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<andreasdr[m]>
Totally lost. Got MiniScript running and building on RISCV. But what the xxxx is the macro to check if CPU is RISCV 32 bit and/or RISCV 64 Bit?