<shaka444[m]>
<coolcoder613_32> "How can i sort my desktop icons?" <- Other than a right-click->Cleanup you can right click and choose Tracker to open Desktop in Tracker.. Choose icon view, sort it how you want then quit Tracker using Either ProcessController in Deskbar or Ctrl-Alt-Del
<shaka444[m]>
s/Tracker/Desktop/
<shaka444[m]>
for coolcoder613_32
DKnoto_W has joined #haiku
DKnoto_W2 has joined #haiku
DKnoto has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
DKnoto has joined #haiku
coolcoder613 has joined #haiku
DKnoto_W has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
DKnoto_W has joined #haiku
DKnoto_W2 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
B2IA has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
DKnoto_W2 has joined #haiku
<zdykstra>
or clean up your desktop and use folders :P
DKnoto has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
B2IA has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
DKnoto has joined #haiku
DKnoto_W has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
DKnoto_W has joined #haiku
DKnoto_W2 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
DKnoto_W2 has joined #haiku
DKnoto has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
DKnoto has joined #haiku
DKnoto_W has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
DKnoto_W2 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
ablyss has joined #haiku
DKnoto_W has joined #haiku
DKnoto_W2 has joined #haiku
B2IA has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
DKnoto has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
B2IA has joined #haiku
DKnoto_W has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
DKnoto_W2 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
wiertelus[m] has quit [Quit: Client limit exceeded: 20000]
mmu_man has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
coolcoder613_ has joined #haiku
Al2O3 has quit [Quit: Good mourning, good after nun, g'nite, and goober evenings.]
Al2O3 has joined #haiku
coolcoder613 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
coolcoder613_ is now known as coolcoder613
bjorkint0sh has joined #haiku
bjorkintosh has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
coolcoder613_ has joined #haiku
<HaikuUser>
I'm still at a loss as to why Haiku OS is so slow with OpenGL and SDL apps, it doesn't make senseee
dcatt has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<clee>
HaikuUser: probably because of the lack of hardware accelerated graphics
<HaikuUser>
I know thattt, but even without hardware acceleration, I shouldnt be getting below 1fps on something like Supertux
Maturi0n_ has joined #haiku
wicknix_ has joined #haiku
<coolcoder613_>
HaikuUser: What is the resolution of you display?
<coolcoder613_>
*your
<HaikuUser>
It's 1280x1024
<coolcoder613_>
hmm.. try making your display res or supertux res smaller
wicknix has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Maturi0n has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<HaikuUser>
I made it small and now it's at 3 fps... But at this point I just wanna figure out why it's performing so badly. I'm at a loss, though
<HaikuUser>
Maybe it's something with VESA?
<HaikuUser>
since this is on Legacy Boot
<HaikuUser>
rather than UEFI
<coolcoder613_>
VESA won't be any slower than anything else
<coolcoder613_>
what is your CPU speed?
<HaikuUser>
Says 1.48GHz in the About Haiku window
xet7 has joined #haiku
DKnoto has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<augiedoggie>
anything using SDL2 will probably be slow for you, SDL1 games should run fine
<augiedoggie>
unless it has a frame limiter like lbreakouthd
<augiedoggie>
but that's sort of a different problem, still related to SDL2 using opengl for everything
Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku
<augiedoggie>
he should run GLInfo to see if llvmpipe is enabled too
coolcoder613_ has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Begasus has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<zard>
Well, the solution evades my quick glance :/
<Begasus_32>
np :)
Begasus has joined #haiku
<Begasus>
no change :/
bbjimmy has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
bbjimmy has joined #haiku
bbjimmy_64 has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
bbjimmy_64 has joined #haiku
bbjimmy_64 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bbjimmy_64 has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
BrunoSpr has joined #haiku
<BrunoSpr>
hi all
<nosycat>
Hello!
<zard>
o/
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
freddietilley has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.1.2]
BrunoSpr has quit [Quit: Vision[]: Ich wurde gewaschen!]
_orealis has joined #haiku
misthalu has joined #haiku
catcream__ has joined #haiku
diver1 has joined #haiku
Halamix2_ has joined #haiku
milek7_ has joined #haiku
pinaraf_ has joined #haiku
Maturi0n has joined #haiku
dqk has joined #haiku
foss4us[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
mr_lou has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
Begasus[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
linuxmaster has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
polybit[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
dqk_ has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
Maturi0n_ has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
Halamix2 has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
AnuragNaik[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
mmu_man has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
diver has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
m_eiman has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
orealis has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
Forza has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
pinaraf has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
fred_jd2020[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
WahidShaikh[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
milek7 has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
awesomes[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
dualmyname[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
boody24[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
catcream has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
woffs has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
Shikhar[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
aladds[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
johnolinda[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
atimaly_frei[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
Grumbleduke[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
MiuST[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
v1Ns[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
TomBhadac[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
BarmenduChakraborty[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
aspendowntime[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
EnriqueMG[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
IoannisCherouvim[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
NorthwoodsNEKO[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
erysdren[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
LjL[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
SamuraiCrow[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
hamoko[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
bitigchi[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
printed[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
wannabee[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
fuggy[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
Deepdarshan[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
AhmedAlhojairat[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
GriffintheFolf[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
Kartikkeyankant[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
bronzie94[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
acidsys has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
seraph[m] has quit [reticulum.oftc.net helix.oftc.net]
_orealis is now known as orealis
catcream__ is now known as catcream
mmu_man has joined #haiku
mr_lou has joined #haiku
diver has joined #haiku
acidsys has joined #haiku
Begasus[m] has joined #haiku
Maturi0n_ has joined #haiku
linuxmaster has joined #haiku
dqk_ has joined #haiku
foss4us[m] has joined #haiku
AnuragNaik[m] has joined #haiku
Forza has joined #haiku
m_eiman has joined #haiku
fred_jd2020[m] has joined #haiku
dualmyname[m] has joined #haiku
milek7 has joined #haiku
boody24[m] has joined #haiku
WahidShaikh[m] has joined #haiku
awesomes[m] has joined #haiku
atimaly_frei[m] has joined #haiku
Shikhar[m] has joined #haiku
Grumbleduke[m] has joined #haiku
aladds[m] has joined #haiku
johnolinda[m] has joined #haiku
v1Ns[m] has joined #haiku
MiuST[m] has joined #haiku
BarmenduChakraborty[m] has joined #haiku
TomBhadac[m] has joined #haiku
EnriqueMG[m] has joined #haiku
aspendowntime[m] has joined #haiku
erysdren[m] has joined #haiku
NorthwoodsNEKO[m] has joined #haiku
bitigchi[m] has joined #haiku
hamoko[m] has joined #haiku
wannabee[m] has joined #haiku
printed[m] has joined #haiku
Deepdarshan[m] has joined #haiku
AhmedAlhojairat[m] has joined #haiku
bronzie94[m] has joined #haiku
GriffintheFolf[m] has joined #haiku
seraph[m] has joined #haiku
pinaraf has joined #haiku
SamuraiCrow[m] has joined #haiku
fuggy[m] has joined #haiku
LjL[m] has joined #haiku
IoannisCherouvim[m] has joined #haiku
polybit[m] has joined #haiku
Kartikkeyankant[m] has joined #haiku
m_eiman has quit [Ping timeout: 483 seconds]
mmu_man has quit [Ping timeout: 486 seconds]
AnuragNaik[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 486 seconds]
fred_jd2020[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
polybit[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 496 seconds]
WahidShaikh[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
dualmyname[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
Grumbleduke[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 486 seconds]
MiuST[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
v1Ns[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
TomBhadac[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
aspendowntime[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
BarmenduChakraborty[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
LjL[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
bitigchi[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 486 seconds]
printed[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 486 seconds]
wannabee[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
Kartikkeyankant[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
GriffintheFolf[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
Maturi0n_ has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
boody24[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
mr_lou has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
dqk_ has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
foss4us[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
Shikhar[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
IoannisCherouvim[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
NorthwoodsNEKO[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
AhmedAlhojairat[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
Deepdarshan[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
Begasus[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
milek7 has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
atimaly_frei[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
aladds[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
fuggy[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
Forza has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
Forza has joined #haiku
awesomes[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
seraph[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
diver has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
pinaraf has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
mmu_man has joined #haiku
FloodServ has quit [resistance.oftc.net services.oftc.net]
QuARC[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Evan[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
fonkerdot[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
evilemperor[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
zarel[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
nielx[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Mashijams[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Commander[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
mukuld[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Cytlan[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
icpcmydream[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
codysseus[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
edruro[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
UbhayAnand[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
zeldakatze[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
erde74[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
yaponamat[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
KSPAtlas[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
ilzu[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
nutcracker500[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
november31stOld[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
RajAryan[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Kai[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Ashhar[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
psydroid[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
ermo[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
DirkOlmes[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
gtramontina[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
YonleCoder has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Maston[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
mika_f[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
zxyz[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
vicuna[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
lnx[m]1 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
BenKlaasen[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
AugustRadjoe[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
swarnlata[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Akhil[m]12 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
KrishnaNarayanan[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
hai2u[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
europa64[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
zelenoviy[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
timkack[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
massn00b[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
weda[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
mattmoose[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
ids1024[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
andreasdr[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
hive[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
JaredMohammed[m]1234 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
jmc-88[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
festivedeer[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
AndersonTorres[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
owl4ce[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
fabs[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
turb0x[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
chaoticbob[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
ZorPrime[m]1 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
shaka444[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
scott_puopolo[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
smontanaro[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
M3dEyes[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Helvedeshunden[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
B2IA has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
Unity[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
spectre10[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Phil[m]1 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
VitorReus[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
EddieHatfield[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Assassink786[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
semicoln[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
BoxingOctopus[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
SaedBhati[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
NovaForte[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
qyzz[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
SuryaPrakash[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
VulcanSphereintheMatrixorg[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
paxsov[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
britishgeekguy[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
lennox[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
SiddharthKumarPanda[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Zor-Prime[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
GateLinker[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
david_alfred[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
rayzon03[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
cwafro[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
hexagon[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
senicar[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Sivaram[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
stereopora[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
code_vaibhav[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
dryphb[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
bronzie94[m]1 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
legarts[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
iar[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
fut10[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
RukiWang[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
TheCat[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
geigercounter[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
yodamatrix[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
jason123santa[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
eightbit[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
divyansh_747[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
ritz[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
c96alia[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
splines[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
valera[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Martini[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
harshit-sharma[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
yukaii[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
mull[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
deadfwd[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
a32bitmint[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
tacocat[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
trungnt2910[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
coolcoder613[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Huzaifa[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
kallisti5[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
harshitsapkal[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
TarunArora[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
BharatSahlot[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
amayas[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
TechnologyTim[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Ruby576[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
dcavalca has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
nyanpasu64[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
xmeadow[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
win8linux[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
js has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
MohitKumar[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
aa55[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
the_sudoer[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
abhiraj1[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
VulcanSphere[CatgirlCloudMatri has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
happy-dude[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
jojo_autoboy[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
B2IA has joined #haiku
bronzie94[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Begasus has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
johnolinda[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
EnriqueMG[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
SamuraiCrow[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
hamoko[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
B2IA has quit []
erysdren[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Guest12503 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
vandito[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
AmitBora[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Fs[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Zelrin[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
foint[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
B2IA has joined #haiku
x512[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
B2IA has quit []
ClaudioM has joined #haiku
mmu_man has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
B2IA has joined #haiku
<zdykstra>
good morning everybody
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
<phschafft>
mau.
<nosycat>
Mau?
<nosycat>
Hello!
<phschafft>
mau :)
mmu_man has joined #haiku
<nosycat>
You know, that makes sense. If the new Linux mascot is a fox, Haiku could have a cat.
evilemperor[m] has joined #haiku
<phschafft>
what?
<nosycat>
There was a discussion about that on the forum recently.
<phschafft>
that sounds strange.
<nosycat>
Says the person who was just meowing. ;)
<phschafft>
so... what? ;)
<nosycat>
Nothing. I just thought it was fun.
jmc-88[m] has joined #haiku
amayas[m] has joined #haiku
evilemperor[m] has quit [Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM]
amayas[m] has quit []
jmc-88[m] has quit []
mmu_man has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
mmu_man has joined #haiku
<zard>
The leaf is something like the Haiku mascot ;). Too bad that doesn't make a good character for Super Tux Kart
<nosycat>
:D
<phschafft>
haha.
<phschafft>
the leaf is what brings me back to Haiku every few years.
<nosycat>
Really? Cool!
<phschafft>
it was in fact what got me to notice the project to begin with.
<zard>
Yeah, the leaf, the name, and the logo all gave me a nice impression.
<zard>
Would be nice if we could do more things as well as those three :)
<phschafft>
and I must say, from what I understand, the kernel is also a bit closer to what I would like computers to be. ;)
<phschafft>
but sadly life always pulls me towards other projects.
<zard>
And package management is well done imo
<nosycat>
Yeah!
* zard
is interested in hearing more about the kernel
<phschafft>
hm?
<nosycat>
I don't know much about it, sorry.
<zard>
Specifically, which parts you think are well done
<phschafft>
and which aren't?
<phschafft>
I think we had a medium size dicussion some time ago where we discussed different opinions on memory allocation models. ;)
<phschafft>
zard: generally my understanding of how a computer should work is that it should be more problem driven than limitation driven.
<phschafft>
an example:
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
<phschafft>
I want to communicate with a peer. he sends me an e-mail and I want to call him back.
<phschafft>
as a user I have one peer. and that peer supports operations such as 'send e-mail to him' or 'call him'.
<phschafft>
that is my perspective as a user.
<phschafft>
what I don't care about is MUAs, VoIP software, phone control software, address book management or all that.
<phschafft>
I just want those things to integrate so that I can just click 'call' next to 'reply by e-mail'.
<phschafft>
to get there the operating system needs to provide a number of APIs, sometime very generic, sometimes very specific.
<phschafft>
one thing I'm a bit more into with my head is the filesystem which really makes a difference here.
<phschafft>
the general concepts of the filesystem on Haiku seem to be better for what I want. but they're still to UNIX-like for my taste.
<nosycat>
Just like a car should sort of go where you want it to, instead of forcing you to think about driving, regulations, gas, oil and so on?
* phschafft
nods.
<zard>
Hmm, one thing that I find interesting about Haiku is how much it does with message-passing
<phschafft>
yes.
<zard>
One benefit is that then, you can use programs like "hey" to send your own messages
<phschafft>
that has some implications, but I would generally say it's in my cloud of APIs a good system would need to have.
* zard
starts thinking about the potential security implications
<phschafft>
think about the MUA just sending a message like 'call +123.456 789'. no need to implement things yourself.
<phschafft>
and a VoIP or a control software for my hardware phone picks up that message.
<phschafft>
Android has implemented that btw.
<zard>
Yes, Android did make some nice architecture decisions like that, imo
<phschafft>
if example if you want to navigate to some screen you just tell the system to run that screen for you. it doesn't matter if it's within your own application or an external application.
<zard>
So, I guess the general idea is, you want to use more of a declarative style (telling the computer what you want done), instead of telling the computer how to do it.
<zard>
On Haiku, you tell Haiku to ask the user to choose a file instead of writing code for exactly how the GUI should look yourself.
<nosycat>
Problem is, the computer is a dumb machine.
<nosycat>
You don't want it second-guessing you.
<nosycat>
It will always guess wrong.
<zard>
lol :D
<bjorkintosh>
nosycat, no longer dumb when we have LLMs!
<phschafft>
zard: standard dialogs are surely another super useful tool. :)
<zard>
One nice example that is more Haiku-specific: you ask Haiku to turn a .pbm (an image format) to a .png. Another application can tell Haiku exactly *how* that's done
<zard>
phschafft: hmm, not very familiar with dialogs on Haiku
<phschafft>
zard: I wouldn't say that I don't want to tell it how to do it. I just want it to adhere to my needs, not the other way around.
<phschafft>
many things are designed to be easy for computers.
<phschafft>
we used to design those things this way because computers were more limited than humans, so it was easier to train the human than to let the computer do the hard work.
<phschafft>
but that type of thinking kept rolling and rolling.
<zard>
Ah, I see
<phschafft>
I posted a few days ago about a micro operating system for a micro controller. that is much closer to what I want than a modern desktop OS.
<phschafft>
and if that controller is basically in the range of a late 80s computer, why do we, 40 years later, still design stuff for 60s computers?
<phschafft>
this is also not about development. so it doesn't invalidate things like write good code, or spend some time with thinking on how you could make it better for the silicon.
<phschafft>
this is a user perspective.
<phschafft>
on that perspective I don't care about code at all. I care about usecases.
<zard>
Ah, ok. So I guess you wouldn't exactly be a fan of electron :D
<phschafft>
I like my electrons to say close to their cores ;)
<phschafft>
(but surely they should feel free to befriend some nearby carbons of the same ring ;)
<nephele>
Begasus_32: quaternion has a new release
<zard>
Looks like we went from talking about electrons to quaternions now. That's a bit advanced for my understanding ;)
<nephele>
zard: a proton is made of two up quarks and one down quark, while neutrons are made from two down quarks and one up quark
<phschafft>
Quark is something I have in the kitchen.
HaikuUser has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<zard>
Ah, hold on, looks like quaternions are a mathematical concept.
<nephele>
yes, but not the one i ment
<nephele>
the "matrix" protocol keeps stealing math terms for their clients
<nephele>
I'm tempted to write a tool for haikuports that just warns you if your package contains stuff like .service files or .desktop files, stuff for the hicolor icon theme etc.
itaipu has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
itaipu has joined #haiku
Begasus has joined #haiku
<zard>
If Haiku does enough stuff with message passing, then it could be possible to make Haiku be distributed i.e. run across several computers
<zard>
That would be interesting (and largely useless)
<phschafft>
it would be interesting and highly useful.
<phschafft>
but it's not that easy.
<phschafft>
GNU Hurd tried to go that way and it was a big part of why it failed.
<zard>
Well, I guess for server environments, but I don't think it would be very useful for normal desktops
<phschafft>
zard: depends on how you look at it.
<mbrumbelow>
Is there a way to schedule updates to Haiku? Like using pkgman to run with no prompts and update the system from Launch Daemon?
<zard>
Interesting... didn't know that about GNU Hurd.
<phschafft>
I would say that GNU Hurd is also on my list of what might be more like what would like to see. but it is also a good case study on how not to do it on a bits and bytes level.
<phschafft>
I mean a project is never a failure if we learn from it. :)
FloodServ has joined #haiku
Begasus is now known as Guest23
<nephele>
zard: you can already now run an app on one machine and have it connect to the app_server of a different one
<zard>
Cool! Time to build my super-computer :P
<nephele>
Since native haiku apps implement "archiving" their state, it could be interesting to archive an application, send it over the network, and resume execution somewhere else
<bjorkintosh>
hmm.
<nosycat>
They actually did a ton of research about that in the 1990s.
<nephele>
unfortunately the remote app server is a bit finicky to work with, no easy GUI
<nosycat>
They were called agent systems.
<nephele>
RemoteDesktop is a bit buggy for me
<bjorkintosh>
perhaps, using tuplespace.
<bjorkintosh>
or the concepts from locus.
<phschafft>
also keep in mind that a user interface and the application logic might be seperated.
<bjorkintosh>
just need to keep track of state.
<bjorkintosh>
a k-v db would handle that.
<nephele>
I think the main interesting things are how to deal with data and such, archiving an app and resuming is straightforward... but what about opened files for example
<bjorkintosh>
nephele, versioning.
<nosycat>
What about security.
<nephele>
say I'm working on a spreadsheet and want to send that, and save on the remote, does it save it's data there or on the original computer :)
<bjorkintosh>
we already know how to do that, thanks to distributed version control.
<bjorkintosh>
why not recycle the same model?
<nephele>
I don't think versioning really answers that
<nosycat>
See, that's where it went nowhere.
<nosycat>
And then *networks became fast*.
<nephele>
nosycat: security in what way?
<bjorkintosh>
nephele, authentication servers also exist.
<nosycat>
Think about it: you're sending your app, full of your confidential data, to run on someone else's computer.
<bjorkintosh>
a lot of these problems have been solved in different systems: plan9, qnx, inferno, git, locus, ...
<nephele>
I probably would only do this with trusted computers, i.e my own
<nosycat>
It's bad enough when credentials end up in a GitHub repo.
<bjorkintosh>
the cloud is someone else's computer. we do that regularly.
<bjorkintosh>
and of course, some neat message-passing ideas from Erlang.
Begasus_32 has quit [Quit: Vision[]: Gone to the dogs!]
<phschafft>
(now in a meeting, discussing sub-ms response times over the network with a client ;)
* nephele
likes the idea of network attached RAM
<bjorkintosh>
phschafft, the solution as always is less JS!!
<bjorkintosh>
nephele, have you checked out the plan9 concept?
<bjorkintosh>
the implementation as usual leaves a little bit to be desired.
<Guest23>
tokodon is back :)
<nephele>
not sure what plan9 has to do with that
<bjorkintosh>
well worry not then :-)
<nephele>
network attached ram is already used in stuff like datacenters afaik
<nephele>
but in my own home with severall computers it seems a bit silly that every computer needs enough ram for their worst case instead of distributing it
<phschafft>
bjorkintosh: em, yes.
<nosycat>
Networks may be super-fast these days, but they're still slower than a spinning-platter drive.
<nosycat>
It wouldn't be RAM, it would be extra slow storage.
v_harkonnen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
v_harkonnen has joined #haiku
<nephele>
in a lan..?
<nosycat>
Even in a LAN.
<nosycat>
It can't measure up to the bus on your mobo.
<nosycat>
Heck, even the RAM on your mobo is so slow the CPU needs three levels of cache.
<nephele>
it only needs to be faster than your HDD
<nephele>
and i don't see the issue with that for network attached ram
<zard>
sub-ms response times over a network... That sounds like an interesting challenge
* zard
wonders how much latency there is in a typical lan
<bjorkintosh>
protocol dependent isn't it?
<zard>
I mean just sending over a typical home LAN, say, over UDP
<nephele>
getting for icmp ping (over one switch) 0,2ms latency between two haikus
<nephele>
or more 0,3
<Guest23>
closing down for today, cu peeps!
<Guest23>
eeps, something didn't take my nick :P
<zard>
:D
<nephele>
don't worry, only begasus would say that line
<Guest23>
could be with the matrix bridge earlier? ;)
<nephele>
you use matrix now? my condolenses
<Guest23>
was testing out Nheko and found the "bridge" earlier :)
<Guest23>
I think the other one is still connected somehow ...
<phschafft>
when I'm not working with data from databases at work I'm working with live data. so it's most of the time RAM or live generated by some set of rules.
<zard>
I'm getting around 1 ms latency in ping with two switches between the devices. So looks like you have to be at least a little careful with your network to get sub-ms ping
Guest23 is now known as Begasus
<Begasus>
ah :)
<zard>
wb Begasus ;)
<Begasus>
now I can say ...
<Begasus>
cu peeps! :)
<nephele>
yeah, and it depends on the protocol and such :D
<nosycat>
Night!
Begasus has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<zard>
1-5 ms ping over wifi, so, definitely don't do that ;)
<bjorkintosh>
phschafft, what kind of hardware/environment?
gouchi has joined #haiku
<zard>
Ah, looks like you'll have to think about the software side as well
<phschafft>
in this case I'm not fully sure. it's some hardware provided by the client. I'm just the person doing writing the software and doing some messurements.
<bjorkintosh>
in C?
<phschafft>
I try to use the best tool for the task.
<bjorkintosh>
naturally.
<phschafft>
this is mostly C, but there are other stuff as well.
gouchi has quit []
<phschafft>
for the messurement software I need to have good control over the actual syscalls.
<phschafft>
so C is a good option.
<bjorkintosh>
of course. C may not be pretty, but she dances well.
nosycat has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<phschafft>
I would say that she is much nicer to look at than many things I have seen so far. ;)
<phschafft>
the messurement tool is made to do 16k HTTP requests in parallel, but I have used it up to 24k requests.
<zard>
*gasp* 16k requests... in parallel, all in sub-ms?
<zard>
Oh, wait, that might not be that much harder...
<phschafft>
then you tell it where to connect to, and how much of a ramp it should use. later collecting a list of $many records including records for every single IO event.
<phschafft>
in this cases it's not much harder, that's true.
<bjorkintosh>
phschafft, where do you save all that data? on disk or in a database?
<phschafft>
but for long runing responses it is.
<phschafft>
bjorkintosh: in preallocated locked memory, and dump it into a file after end of the test.
<phschafft>
no disk IO allowed while the test is running.
<phschafft>
also no memory allocation in the userland or kernel.
<bjorkintosh>
ah.
<zard>
Sounds like you found yourself an interesting job :)
<bjorkintosh>
this sounds like an ideal space for in memory sqlite.
<bjorkintosh>
it's faster than disk i/o
<phschafft>
I enjoy those parts and let them carry me over the boring parts.
<phschafft>
sadly most clients want 'inovation' which means they want to mix stuff from the 80s and 90s and put a new marketing sticker on it with as little money as possible.
<phschafft>
bjorkintosh: I have some sqlite projects as well. and I'm impressed by it's read speed. and in fact I use it as front end cache for postgresql for it's speed.
<phschafft>
but the write speed is... not that good.
<phschafft>
zard: so, would love to have more clients that are interested in real going forward.
<bjorkintosh>
oh but writing is always harder.
<bjorkintosh>
I mean. solid state means there's silicon somewhere in there. meaning you're writing in stone!
<bjorkintosh>
that's right folks, we're living in the stone age.
<phschafft>
;)
<zard>
Heh. So its got its good parts and its bad parts. Ah well, such is any job :)
<phschafft>
ran an experiment with how storage flash storage works by building a 1-bit flash on the desk and live discussing it with my coworkers.
<bjorkintosh>
nice. a buffer.
<bjorkintosh>
phschafft, did you build a small circuit or was it on paper?
<phschafft>
I build it and had it running with my scope connected to the internet. ;)
<phschafft>
so you could see the bit starting to significantly degenerate after about 17 hours.
<bjorkintosh>
what was the cause of the degeneration?
<phschafft>
with a mean time between flips when in rest of like 20 hours. (so after 20 hours 50% of the bits fliped if not refreshed)
<phschafft>
leak current in the transistor's gate isolation.
<zard>
Hmm, at this point I'll guess you work on embedded systems?
<phschafft>
welcome to my personal lab, where you find a 50GOhm resistor as a ready part ;)
<bjorkintosh>
phschafft, what kind of scope do you have/
<phschafft>
zard: no, not at all.
<phschafft>
bjorkintosh: a very old PM 3234, and some modern cheap stuff,
<phschafft>
some joyit portable one and a OWON SDS1102
v_harkonnen has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
v_harkonnen has joined #haiku
<phschafft>
the OWON has a high value/cost, but the Philips is more sensitive.
<phschafft>
so, the right tool for the task. :)
<phschafft>
no single tool will ever fit all tasks.
<bjorkintosh>
phschafft, yes. I know this well.
<bjorkintosh>
<-- is a trained machinist.
<phschafft>
zard: I'm doing media streaming, and $what_pays_the_bills, we also do a lot of research on streaming related stuff, but also like the topics we talked about here before.
<phschafft>
;)
<zard>
Ah, ok
<zard>
:)
<phschafft>
sometimes it's fun. one of the apps for a client we had in the normal Android GUI and also a second binary that was a Android command line tool.
<phschafft>
so if you ever need someone who writes you an Android command line app in C, feel free to ping me. ;)
<bjorkintosh>
phschafft, speaking of tools, what do you think of Rust?
<nephele>
too much oxygen
<phschafft>
nephele++
<bjorkintosh>
hahaha
zard has quit [Quit: leaving]
v_harkonnen has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<nephele>
nephele++ would be a great programming language
<nephele>
I kind of want to learn how to design one... for modding sims 2 xD
<nephele>
i see the current modding scene uses the obviously-compiled assembly like code for interactions, and i think that isn't what the authors of the game worked with internally
<bjorkintosh>
which sims?
<bjorkintosh>
quite a few games have scripting languages for that purpose. Lua is a popular one.
<nephele>
sims 2, it's not really a scrinting language though
<phschafft>
lua can be fun. :)
<nephele>
yes :)
WahidShaikh[m] has joined #haiku
<phschafft>
wrote a layouter/renderer for LÖVE in it alike Android's Views. not a big project, just some fun. liked it.
<nephele>
I've also written a layouting lib in Love2d :D
<nephele>
and a game that goes along with it
pinaraf_ is now known as pinaraf
B2IA has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
B2IA has joined #haiku
<phschafft>
I never wrote a real game in it as their scheduler didn't match the requirements.
<phschafft>
what was your game about?
<nephele>
I've actually written both the server and client part in love2d, but i am a bit annoyed that I *have* to have a window open for the server to use any texture specific features :(
<nephele>
It's a 2d game where you can run around the world and draw at the same time, it's supposed to include a programming "layer" where each color is a different programm and each connected area is one instance (and they can communicate with their neighbours, and react to events like "player entered")
<nephele>
haven't really gotten to the programming layer part yet
<nephele>
i have it on my git if you want to check it out though
<phschafft>
actually sounds like a lot of fun.
<phschafft>
short on time, but always happy to have the link. :)
<phschafft>
(I mean the CPU emulation I used a few days ago was also a posted here weeks before, so sometimes you just get back to it :)
<phschafft>
was more just happy to see a codec from the foundation being used. ;)
<bjorkintosh>
phschafft, how did you get into electronics?
<phschafft>
I don't feel like I did ever get into it.
<bjorkintosh>
you have a small shop, yes?
<bjorkintosh>
or a shack for that matter.
<phschafft>
I call it 'lab' ;)
<bjorkintosh>
even better. a place to work.
<phschafft>
I mean I also have wood stuff, paints and brushs, some optical toys, ..
misthalu has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<phschafft>
I'm not really into metal working.
<phschafft>
bjorkintosh: I think I'm generally interested. that's the main point.
<bjorkintosh>
phschafft, yeah but interested enough to invest in scopes?
<phschafft>
wanting to know, wanting to understand, and wanting to make this a better place for all of us.
<bjorkintosh>
that's Really interested.
<phschafft>
bjorkintosh: I studied EE, first automation, then telecommunications.
<phschafft>
but that is really more a hobby.
<bjorkintosh>
aha!
<phschafft>
I'm more a software person now. often for more abstract problems.
<phschafft>
my grandfather and my father were into EE to some level.
<phschafft>
my grandfather was like the first generation, so moving from more classic crafts into EE, and my father then was the computer era, so he migrated towards network stuff.
<bjorkintosh>
no amateur radio?
<phschafft>
I need to acknowledge that they provided kind of... a substrate. but I'm not sure they are who lit the spark.
<phschafft>
no, I'm the first in my family to hold a license.
extrowerk has joined #haiku
<bjorkintosh>
you have one? wow!
<bjorkintosh>
I've been meaning to. for a good decade+ now
<phschafft>
hu, don't know when I got mine.
* nephele_
owns an amateur radio but no license :(
erysdren has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
<phschafft>
the invoice for my first call sign is dated feb 2013.
<bjorkintosh>
nephele_, is it a handheld baofeng?
<phschafft>
bjorkintosh: but don't get me wrong. I have the license for technical reasons mainly.
<bjorkintosh>
it's the only reason to get one.
<phschafft>
it is handy for example on events when you can use a few more bands for communication, surely.
<nephele_>
not sure what make it is, got it from a friend of my grandmothers
<phschafft>
but I'm not at all into the social group.
<bjorkintosh>
oh i see what you mean. you don't use it like audio-only irc.
<phschafft>
I'm hust not into talking with people three or four times my age that think that the transistor must be something like transsexual, so all go to hell!
<phschafft>
people that use tube rectifiers to generate 1kW of RF from 10+kW on the main to talk with someone basically next door, no thanks.
<phschafft>
litterally one of the better clubs over here has an OM as president who made his license before the transistor was invented.
<phschafft>
and in all the years he never bothered to have a look on what it's about.
<bjorkintosh>
wow.
<bjorkintosh>
transistors are for kids.
<phschafft>
the problem is that those people do the training.
<phschafft>
I mean they surely know what they're talking about when they talk about their topics.
<phschafft>
but they should not push their topics into modern training.
<phschafft>
you can be good with outdated stuff, but doesn't make it less outdated.
erysdren has joined #haiku
<bjorkintosh>
transistor must be something like transsexual: transistor (transfer conductance voltage-dependent resistor)
<bjorkintosh>
it's a mouthful.
coolcoder613_32 has joined #haiku
<phschafft>
;)
<erysdren>
just like me
<phschafft>
hm?
<phschafft>
you're also outdated? ;)
<phschafft>
or you're a mouthful?
dqk_ has joined #haiku
<bjorkintosh>
hahaha
<bjorkintosh>
outdated mouthful.
<coolcoder613_32>
Good morning
dqk has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<erysdren>
phschafft: both
nephele_ has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<bjorkintosh>
a likely response from a nerd syre.
dqk_ is now known as dqk
v_harkonnen has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
xet7_ has joined #haiku
xet7 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
erysdren has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
vdamewood has joined #haiku
vdamewood has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
B2IA has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
FreeFull has quit []
FreeFull has joined #haiku
AlienSoldier has joined #haiku
B2IA has joined #haiku
rakka has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ClaudioM has quit [Quit: leaving]
rakka has joined #haiku
<scanty>
rakka, you should not IRC from root.
<coolcoder613_32>
Technically, everyone who is ircing from Haiku is ircing from root